Sounds like wing ding anti Semitic tripe. Or it could be that he has no civil right so to speak to have his hands on her in the first place and therefore the responsibility to monitor his own behavior is his and not hers. The existence of an impartial documented history of 2 years worth of 1150 emails between Bill and the other woman is stark corroboration. Hybels condemned himself. She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. You will be swamped with Williow Creek and Bill Hybels telling us how to and their morality. No idea the the Bible says, Do the work of an evangelist! Joss Whedon Is a Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals, according to his ex-wife Kai Cole in her guest post on *The Wrap*. Ive experienced it alsomultiple times. I tell you, when someone like BH is exposed, people come out of the woodworks to defend their celebrity hero and attempt to discredit the victims. Ever. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. But, I seriously doubt your using scripture as a club will shame, convince or condemn many here. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. I pity you if thats the case. Think about it. There are evil people who look like good people. Youre not alone Lyds. Fools a lot of people and so utterly against anything Christ said. Throughout this scorching page-turner, Roy is charming and has a They collected funds for widows and orphans, and then distributed those funds as promised. Davids own relationship with God was apparently restored, David continued to worship the God of Israel-to his death as far as I know. Bill Hybels has stepped down. Hence, it is easier to build a close-knit cult of people who really dont know each other that well. To fellowship with other believers? Sometimes you have to look into the darkness in order to see that God is still present and at work. I just posted an article with links to two case studies from the #MeToo movement, one from the entertainment field (Joss Whedon) and one from the skeptics/scientists author-speaker circuit (Lawrence Krauss). She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. Why? I hope that you are correct that what was stated by Jodi Walle is not true. Does Willow Creek teach leaders how to marginailze church members that do not have the vision that the pastor does? If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. I would not attend a church where I knew the pastor behaved like that. There are some 20 gifts mentioned in Scripture (Romans 12, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 1213). Working our works out of view, Ive been a christian for many years so I take offense to your allegations. Are you saying that God is insufficient in this situation? Assuming that Ms. Walle isnt lying whatever her tone or motives Ortberg could go first and model real manhood by addressing her claims directly, owning what is true, and asking for forgiveness, as warranted. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. Give, and it will be given to you. I think we have lived the same life. As much as many hate reformed doctrine, there is much less of this particular error. So, it is imperative to preserve discoverables especially as the destruction or withholding of them may mean the court can interpret that act as consciousness of guilt and therefore assume that the evidence went against the case of spoliators. And with Invocation of GAWD subbing for the Ludes and Roofies. havent forgotten. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. And few of us agree on every point! You will eventually find like minded people. They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. Shame on all who participated in this. I know this because I have experienced it myself. I thought it was weird when my friends dads would kiss my cheek but I recognized that was a cultural difference really and let it be. Pew sitters paid for these seminars.. Willow Creek has run many many seminars teaching other churches how to impliment the Williow Creek model. But your iniquities have built barriers between you and your God, and your sins have made Him hide His face from you so that He does not listen. (Isaiah 59:1-2). Think carefully. I have said his actions with women have been wrong and they are disqualifying for a man of the Gospel. And us adults have to learn not to be so easily snookered by evil experts masquerading as wonderful people and pass red flags along to children. Mary, I am going to assume that you have not been well taught on the subject of judgement. https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Cults-Insidious-All-Consuming-Organization/dp/0814404936. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. So much! This is ALL so disappointing and disheartening. Listen to yourself, Brad! I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. I felt something was amiss with the email story when I first heard about it. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. But, still I try not to broad brush. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. These things seem like nitpicking until you have more information. If they are self impressed with the numbers who attend WCC, they have a problem. I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. Lets put all our conjecture up about the retracted affair as well. That said, this is all so tragic. Is that honest? But, years of playing the great man on stage can be a very powerful armor. The important thing is to get people on the bandwagon, and manipulate them to maintain their undying love and loyalty. And, yes, some people dont come forward with their experiences for dozens of years. I believe the accusers in this case especially since you corroborate that they knew the difference in a hug and a hug. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg. Only the Lord knows, way above my paygrade to say with any certainty, but observing fruits and the lack thereof is not above my paygrade. 30 seconds, if it was really that long, is a very long time for a hug. Im not saying any of that is right. Who appointed you besides yourself ? I wonder if her crisis of faith was after finding out about something shady Bill was doing? Read the Bible. Now, you should go back and read about victims and try to learn why this open letter hurts real victims. Pulling the of the devil card is vintage playbook. some Rabbi from Nazareth. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. Willow wont even list Mars Hill on Steve Carters website bio. Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. @ Lea: Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. - Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. The gospel includes that in spite of what happened God is willing to forgive and restore the sinner in relationship to God. But please dont discard their testimony for the reasons you gave. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. Its uncomfortable but is it anything really? Eleven repented and realized their failing at the resurrection. This is why I have posted the 1 Tim 5 passage in two threads recently: Just read what the Bible says about leaders and ask, Is it even possible that God would set these high standards for elders/overseers/pastors and then only give us promiscuous, abusive, and manipulative leaders?. after the perps death before she told anyone. Ummm-not exactly. People have been had. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? Thanks, all! And it shall come to pass that, like as I have watched over them to pluck up and to break down and to overthrow and to destroy and to afflict, so will I watch over them to build and to plant, saith Jehovah. (Jeremiah 31:28), @ Davis and Natasha: People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Learn to value yourself. This one is so true. not even then 4 years.?? This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. there was no hostile work environment attached. But is that truthful? It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. I outlined above the typical reasons people dont mention uncomfortable incidents with someone they trust or admire. Same outrage. There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. "He told me what he thought about how I looked, very specifically, what he thought about my leadership gifts, my strengths," she told the Tribune. If you (the church at Ephesus) do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Rev 2:7. It is when people naively do not realize that everyone has an agenda, not to be cynical, that they fail to ask important questions and perform essential (to them!) It is clear to me that God did not want this hidden any longer.. Not even the great prophets got such responses. NB If anything uncomfortable happens again I will be saying something clearly to him & asking him to mind his manners. What I am remembering, and what troubled me then, is how these well-meaning people fell under the Willow Creek spell, and how their little, creaky, boring churches could not compete with the new mega entertainment center. Just think what you could do with a well placed suggestion after taking Ambien. But worse. Whatever it is, its wrong-headed. 1 in particular always made flirtatious comments. Its amazing how many believers will interpret the metaphor of fruit differently, for example. Now its over. This rodent by the name of Roy teaches a better-sex class for males and is the best lover shes ever had. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. Its uncomfortable but is it anything really? Same play book. I absolutely agree that the same exact methods are used on both ends of the spectrum. No one walks away unascathed. Finally, we are told to have high standards for our teachers. Is lynne hybels still married to bill The new thing i learned from nancy ortberg's post was that bill has personally. If that were odd then I would change, but like I said that is just how we do. I hope you are right about this. I see this is a crucial issue, and I appreciate that Dee has put it forward for consideration in abuse survivor communities. Nothing substitutes for diligent study and wide reading. This is RUSSIAN Bureaucratic tradition, centered on Plausible Deniability: Nancy had no idea that he was doing this to other women. Its The guy at church who wants a side hug. Rags to Riches to Rags in three generations. It works but is it the faith? I did. Jesus wins. The Elders reviewed none for content. I hope your eyes are one day opened. Even the word Unity really means conformity. The principles are sound, thoughwell enough to be applied to anyone's marriage, especially those looking to place God in the middle. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. Lynne Hybels and Bill Hybels have two grown children, Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels, and one son-in-law, Aaron Niequist.. As it has been stated in widening circles of social media, under these circumstances (such as: improper investigation, witness discounting/tampering/intemadation, and most important lack of following scriptural guidelines) the Willow Creek 501(c)3 church organization by many credible voices has been deemed/proscribed as no longer a(n) safe or scriptural place to attend or be a part of. You want to know the lack of leadership moment that really stood out to me in Hybels own words? (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. I worked for a large pharmaceutical firm. She uses grooming quite cleverly. There will be a full court press to save Hybels legacy. A year later they started Willow Creek Community Church. The founding couple died, and the board got rid of those naughty kids and grandkids. I asked my mom once why she endured physical abuse so long from my father, and she gave me similar answers. @ Davis and Natasha: In a calm. Ever thought of switching to WordPress? We were just people who assumed the best of those who claimed to be leading in the name of God. Ive no doubt that there was irregularities going on at WCC. Sadly, I feel confident that this has not infrequently been engineered by the profiteers running these circus-show churches. The information given was half-truths and from the very first email sent out from the elderslacking wisdom and discernment. Hybels considers himself first among equals in the fraternity of evangelical pastors. No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ. @WillowCreekCC. But the church's growth also took a professional and personal toll on Hybels, who had married his. The accusations against Hybels come from multiple women, including several former employees who spoke on the record with the Chicago Tribune as a part of a major investigation published in March . That length is reserved for the husband/wife relationship, comforting someone, or greeting someone close whom you havent seen in a long time. I think thats true for some and not others. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). Narcissistic, abusive leaders are masterful manipulators, and even the most intelligent, cynical, questioning people can be taken under their spell without knowing it has happened. I do believe that he may have gone through a time of repentance and contrition, as much as he may understand that he needs to, and has come to the other side of it and that is the reason that he may not seem as repentant as they expect. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. In the process, one creates division, hatred and war, both within and without the so-called Church. I do agree with you, however, that there is enough blame and there has been enough time and somebody should have done something long ago, if that is what you are saying. Dont confuse the two. So done. But what does that have to do with her testimony? The beast must be fed. She was running with him outside. Having seen some of the comments by WCC supporters left at TWW, I can imagine the pressure and pain that she has had to face with her account. I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. . My heart goes out to you, all of you, by coming forward you have contributed to breaking this cycle of abuse. I doubt you get the same affect from creepy weirdo hugs. It is the private hotel rooms that can be dangerous. @ Law Prof: He missed an important element in his effort at damage control: Preach it straight from the beginning. But friends I hug more frequently, family, etc. The Devil is destroying yet another church. Because my -and others- comments are moderated, there can be a lot of instantly-posted discussion between a (approval-needed) comment and when it appears. FOUR YEARS!! I think it compounds the problem when so many mega churches are unaffiliated with a denomination and/or have sprung up and had only ONE pastor (or lead pastor) for their entire church history. Its what someone mentioned in another thread about 75% of people go along with whatever to be accepted. Senior 501(c)3 Willow Creek management apparently did not throughly examine the extent of the personal witness/testimony/allegations at the time of presentation. However, just noticed a mega the founding family kids were using as their cash cow, followed by sexual indiscretions. @ dee: Brad I am the Bride of Christ, the Church, as are Dee and Deb and many others who post here. I bought pants, shirts, belts and sweaters and you picked what you wanted and paid me for those items. But at church with people you see week after week? But it is also more than ethics here. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. Bill was born on March 1, 1948 to Dr. Joseph and Evelyn LaBarre. And David C Cook did not remove Tullian Tchividjians books at the time, though when I checked just now, it appears the only one they carry is the biography of Billy Graham for which he wrote the foreword. Hybels is spending his time complaining and murmuring against his accusers, rather than taking their contentions to heart, examining himself, repenting and coming clean. The sheer resources at these (mostly) mens disposal. I dont know if you have any experience with megachurch staffs or not. But I dont think the view of hell is really the issue for the church leaders highlighted here. And actually, it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to be so bold that made it happen. Yeah, right. Peter Led about 3000 to Christ on the day of Pentacost. As for the hug thing, & why didnt Nancy Ortberg say somethingwell, for a year or two now, my Christian neighbour, who Ive been friends with him & his wife for about 25 years, has been giving me lingering hugs, which end up with his hands resting on my lower back as often as he can when he drops into my house, hes made a few inappropriate comments about my breasts (they are a standing joke amongst me & my friends as Im a buxom lass), often tries to rub my shoulders as he knows I have shoulder issues& youre the first people Ive told. Hybels appears to be trying to fade off into the sunset now. Having been a nurse, I told him I found it rather odd that he was focusing on one of the more rare side effects, and that he brought it up to me at all. Testimony of victims and witnesses is not gossip. @ dee: @ April Kasper: she either did or didnt inform her husband immediately 1. Does Bill Hybels teach pastors how to get more friendly with his staff, but keep it under raps? If he is sincere about his reasons for retiring early, make a very public statement for people to knock it off and let him go away quietly. You know, Bill Hybels for two decades or more promoted himself as the one with a system that would revolutionize the church and make it relevant. The people there sold out to it will protect it at all costs. In my 9 years of writing a blog which deals with abuse issues, I have been deeply upset by the responses of Christians when their celebrity church or pastor have been shown to have clay feet. Yesterday evening I was milling through the books at Goodwill. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.. I think there can be a benefit when many people have a genuine need for human touch. I think the rule of thumb is that for every person who complains, there are 15-20 more that dont just because of the hassle and expectation nothing will change. Nigerian pop song about a con man. Buy my books, listen to my sermons, attend my conferences! Peter was upset. . Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? Ive been silently wondering the same. Is faith journey a synonym for sanctification? I dont know what you have been told but, according to the Bible, Jesus is the one who brings people to Himself. Im not trying to do anything but reel in my disappointment in what has been going on at Willow Creek. Tell your sister that I am standing with her in spirit and in prayer. So sad. BTW, when I confronted him publicly, his response wasnt, I didnt do it, but You wanted me to. A married man twice my age, I might add, who nobody liked. People are observing us, day in and day out. (1 Cor. Hybels was slated to retire from his position at Willow Creek in October 2018; however, he resigned in April 2018 after allegations of sexual misconduct were made against him. Think about it. Why are you slamming the Bride of Christ? Im not out to defend Rob Bell, but Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy, at least based on historical Christianity. And Long Prayers will be said for justification. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? A lot of people find security and safety in that. This is a crucial part of dealing with horrors of abuse. I dont have any memory of doing and saying those things to her that night!. Sometime in the next two weeks, I am going to write a story about a woman who was raped by her husband. I wonder when the above reproach inspectors will engage and be welcome with open arms; they may want to hurry, as its reached the secular media, and theyre not too focused on 1 Peter 4:8. So were other women who were dealing with this privately. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. Nothing brings the True Believer attack dogs out of the woodwork like even the hint of Blasphemy against their REAL god. Get that through your heads. And then sometimes, you end up like me: done with it all, the system that props up people with give the title pastor, that is like fresh meat to the malignant narcissist. But I have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors or dentists office. The task is to not establish and maintain environments where such people can abuse without danger of being held accountable. Even as red flag after red flag goes up, we push them aside (btw, I now view red flags as the Holy Spirit calling out Warning, this needs careful thought.). But if true it is still not honorable behavior. I know its not popular here, but Im also thankful for their seeker sensitive approach. The issue with those who had represented themselves before God and man as being in a place of spiritual authority with the responsibility to be above reproach often have escaped civil or criminal conviction or any sort of permanent admission of guilt or shortcoming for which repentance is called. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. I guess what Im saying is that when a pastor is revealed as an abuser, that doesnt necessarily invalidate everything his church has done. The church is doing fine. I know. Agreed that Ms. Walles claims arent relevant to the question of Mr. Hybels actions, although they do speak to a toxic, boundary-less culture where men were apparently not held to high standards and did not have clear guidelines that held them accountable. Barton co-authored with John Ortberg Ordinary Day With Jesus, which clearly instructs readers in mystical prayer practices. This writing clearly shows John Ortbergs sympathies to this New Age spirituality. As we said in Old School D&D about 3rd-level spells, You can do a lot more damage with one Suggestion in the right place than a dozen Fireballs.. If I felt uncomfortable I removed myself from the situation and spoke up. Thanks, Barbara, for your outstanding work. It works but is it the faith? Read the books and follow the formula. I double dog dare every Creeker to demand to see a detailed budget. Followed by the disciples, who never promoted themselves, built buildings, staged shows, had followers, had a staff. This is part of the problem that the #metoo movement does not address. This is VERY common. His wife had died rapidly of inflammatory breast cancer and we were at the funeral home for visitation. Willow Creek Community Church initially started as a high school ministry but grew over time to become one of the biggest Churches in the United . 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