Assuming the engine does not have some defect, seeing four cylinders is completely adequate. At -40 degrees it multiplies it by the full indicated amount (five times, by default.) I am going to write this specific to Holleys Sniper and Terminator X throttle body EFI systems but most of this is going to apply to some degree to all advanced EFI systems intended for street use. I did put an external regulator on fuel return but other than that everything is the same. Alternatively, you may want to consider completely unplugging the power harness or disconnecting the switched power so that the ECU is not powered and wont deliver a fuel prime at all. The resulting resistance can burn up fuel pumps, wiring and relays. At the bottom you'll see AE vs TPS RoC Blanking. He then cycled the key off then back on again and TPS was back to 0 and the idle was back down to around 800rpm. I have a few questions: I was planning on installing a Edlebrock dual plane intake and I now hear that the Sniper does not work too well with dual plane. Im getting ready to instal a sniper master kit on a Ford There is a 30-amp fuel pump relay built into the Sniper wiring harness so no additional relay is needed. It will add fuel based on the temperature and won't affect your warm start.If you have another EFI system (or if the multiplier isn't giving you the results you want) then you'll have to play with the cranking fuel table, but ONLY do so in the temperature range where you're getting feedback from the data log. Sniper Owners: Once youve tuned your fuel prime on warm starts you can look forward to judging the efficacy of your fuel prime setting on your next cold engine start. Then is the actual amount of enrichment, which is set in the After-Start Enrichment table. Goat Rope Garage 76.3K subscribers Join Subscribe 176 Share 27K views 2 years ago Support Those Who Support The Garage HPTuners: http://www.hptuners.com Show. If not then stop and buy one now. Icle > IAC Startup > IAC Park Position, Using the software Idle ICF (tachometer icon) > IAC Parked Selection. That's not the case here is it? Does it recover if you bump the throttle? There are just turn downs after the electric cut outs. It just takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session. Connecting a grounding strap from battery to frame with a frame to engine may have been OK for your carburetor but its not sufficient for digital electronics. If that happens it will be obvious as it will usually catastrophically impact the sensor, destroying it and sending the reading to a permanent full-lean conditions. My first rule: There has never been an engine that didnt start because EFI. My question is if both of my fuel pumps are wired from relays to my rocker panel where does the blue fuel pump prime wire connect or would you just not use it altogether. (Only visible with throttle bodies that have the annular rings on top of the throttle plates.). I really want to go EFI this year. Connect the crank and run wires together and all should be good. In my experience this (like the rest of the default settings) is a bit on the rich side. Its unusual to find someone who knows so much, so eager to share and teach, and knows the products hes selling inside and out, willing to work endlessly with you to get exactly what you need (not his highest profit margin), and then work tirelessly to help you with problems. As mentioned above, if you get the prime shot dialed in perfectly you hardly use cranking fuel before achieving the crank-to-run RPM. Enjoy! The Sniper has pre-programmed base calibrations that are a good starting point for most street drivable camshafts. to zero, but I think you'll find that you will stall. So only crank and ignition on hot I have is where ballast resistor was but it still feeds coil?Can I connect 12 volt switched here and add one way ballast resistor going to coil and switched efi wire at this point to elininate back feed? A brief spray of fuel is injected before cranking. Idle and cruise can be tuned leaner with "seat of the pants" feel. Thank you for your ongoing support. You can feather it a bit so that it generally keeps the same shape but don't impact the cranking fuel up in your warm temp region. Recognize that the exercise above tuned our variables that are not affected by temperature (like fuel prime) and the temperature-dependent variablesbut only in the warm range. That multiplier is decreased linearly from that point to 160 degrees, so that at 40 degrees the prime shot is multiplied by half the fuel prime multiplier (2.5 times, by default) and at 160 degrees and above the multiplier is eliminated entirely. Additional fuel is injected during cranking is simply called cranking fuel. Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems, Actual fuel pressure matches what is specified in the configuration, Fresh spark plugs of the manufacturers specification are installed, Engine is timed and tuned for correct performance. This is normally completely adequate. Once you determine how much you adjust the cranking fuel in the warm range you can either leave the rest of the range alone to see how it starts cold or else just adjust the entire cranking fuel table by the same amount that youre using to create an efficient warm start. Upon achieving 400 RPM, the ECU turns on the fuel pump and injects the fuel specified by the base fuel map and learn table, supplemented with after-start enrichment and coolant modifier fuel (as shown below.). You should then have at least 18-24 of pipe after the sensor. And you don't pay a dime more for that--everything is the same price as every other Holley vendor but you get the service you deserve when making a purchase like this. Fortunately, Holley has another product that can solve that: Hydramat.. Hydramat is not inexpensive but you won't believe what it can do. My car is going on the dyno for final tuning next week. Figure out what it's not getting and the find out why. This, in turn, will power the Sniper. The problem isn't the 55 PSI. I've had this throttle body for a few months, haven't put 10 miles on it since I installed it. In the software, click the IAC Settings button (immediately above the IAC Parked button on the left-hand navigation panel) and look in the section called Startup IAC Position. Power glide with 1.80 first gear, 6,200 converter. Will the height of the return line be an issue? features . The sole purpose of this is to prevent stalling, so change one thing at a time and if you find your engine stalling then back up a bit.The four key settings:1.) Therefore what remote TPS can be used? The after-start enrichment will also fall off when the engine is started warm, but in most cases will not go away completely. The Coolant Temperature starts at 106% and decays to 100% at 160 degrees. Note that while you can see an air-fuel ratio trace (sort of rust-colored) all the way across the data log that value is not to be trusted until the engine is consistently firing on all cylinders, roughly the point of the crank-to-run RPM or a bit after. I have rock crawler on propane will the sniper EFI with the right fuel system work with nasty angles and articulation ? Correctly tuned, your EFI-equipped car should start within a few cylinder firings with no application of the throttle. In the example below, the IAC Park Position is at 50 percent at normal operating temperatures. While continuing to observe the barrels, crank the engine. What do I need to do to rectify this issue? Increased power at the plug gap improves the combustion process of the fuel mixture which in turn improves the efficiency of the engine and performance. Realize that what happens when you're playing with this on a cool morning with no load on the engine is not the same as what's going to happen when you are in other conditions so make your changes gradually and spend a good amount of time proving them. Is a tremendous volume of fuel sprayed into just one barrel? My problem is that it starts and stalls instantly then acts flooded. Fires up & runs perfect. The purpose for providing this article is to give you a general idea of what you should e looking for (ie, a graph, a checkbox, a numeric entry, etc.) Why? It's almost impossible to hurt an engine with no load on it. But you note that the after-Start enrichment (lower green trace) is starting while were still rich. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector. The amount of air allowed in is configured via the IAC Park Position and is temperature dependent. And the less correction you do until you understand that---the better! Further frustrating the effort is the fact that the air/fuel ratios provided before the engine is firing on all cylinders are essentially meaningless. Would love some feedback as what I need to do to help my issue. Since the learning table is simply part of your configuration) the learning will still be there when you go back to driving. Much appreciated! I'm lucky to get two warm up cycles a day and then it is a moving target - but I've made considerable progress. Thanks. Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. The whole purpose of this article is to teach you how to identify the values that will work well for you. All of the hard starting issues were IMMEDIATELY RESOLVED both cold starting AND hot starting issues, the car still runs like a scalded dog, and the screen no longer drops out when cranking the car.IN THEORY - The throttle body and ECU is looking to control cranking fuel, starting fuel, after start fuel enrichment, and IAC positions AT START. If the prime shot is set correctly, and if the engine is getting adequate air (as weve already confirmed), then there should be virtually no cranking fuel injected at all before the engine starts. Avoid using any 90 degree fittings between the tank and pump. This Mr. Gasket 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a great choice where hood space is limited. I won't buy anywhere else. Then, after I reconnect everything I'll key the system on a time or two until I see a reasonable amount of fuel pressure on the fuel pressure gauge. I Had a holley sniper on this car with no issues whatsover. Beyond that you're going to have to get Holley tech support involved. Any suggestions? Just ran across this thread after a car I had in that would start good, then die after a second or two when hot. i can hear the pump, but nothing is coming through the fuel line. 4.) That's a spread of 200 degrees so half of that would be 100 degrees. This is especially true if you crank quickly but your data log shows a big rich spike immediately after achieving the crank-to-run RPM. Everyone raving about customer service is telling the truth! But I have MSD 6 AL. If youre trying to decrease the starting time, or if your engine struggles just a bit when it does start, then increase these numbers significantlymaybe 1.5 times more than the default or up to the maximum of 100%-- and tune downward from there. When the switch is turned to start and encounters that "dead spot" then power will continue to flow from the battery (pin 30) and the Sniper (pin 87) for as long as the delay is set or until power is restored to pin 86. Only thing Im really looking for is an AFR of 14.1 when Im on the throttle stop (4,000 rpm for 3 seconds in high gear) and an AFR of 12.8 to 13.0 everywhere else. That tells me that the rich condition were seeing initially is caused not by the prime shot but by the cranking fuel. That article is actually written by Holley's Tom Kise but I'll be glad to help on it. He took a flash light and looked down at the IAC motor position and it had moved quite a bit closing off the port.Now I had to try this and of course my results were not so lucky. I think my tach is on there. Fuel must also be added to start the engine. Most important!!! I have a 428 fe with a MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil, MSD Ignition Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run Distributor Ford FE, but that's all. Cheers Darren. Lets note for the record that the time from power on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds. Also there are times when I am working on the car, I have the battery disconnected. Capability Range: Moderate Super helpful and knowledgeable. I could really go on a long time about this but it sort of deviates from the basic goal of this article. Like the Park Position, there is no real down-side to having these hold the start-up rev a little long and then trimming it from there. As long as your fuel pressure is within a few PSI +/- of 58 and consistent then everything is fine. Capability Range: Advanced Since, at this point, youre only tuning warm starts, I recommend tuning the table only in the temperature range where the engine is currently starting. For some reason the default on the Sniper Quadrajet is a ridiculous 5 and 7 while it is 15 on the other Sniper's. More on that later. Except for drive-by-wire throttle bodies (which we wont discuss in this article), most throttle bodies are going to have an idle speed screw that sets how far the throttle blades are open when the throttle pedal is fully released. Run the switched 12-volt back as close to the ignition as possible. Too little opening and the engine risks not having enough air to start. Many of these are completely normal with EFI. When you remove a spark plug is it bone dry or dripping wet? Incorrect connections will result in excessive resistance. But what if it doesnt? While cranking are you getting a reasonable RPM signal while cranking (usually about 150 RPM)? 4.56 rear gear and total weight is 2825 with me. Would it start & quit like that if the switched wire wasnt working? But never ever forget there is a second learning going on--your own. Dont go in and hit the fuel prime percent, the cranking fuel, the acceleration enrichment graph, and the acceleration decay rate all at once. Have you ever watched a post nuclear apocalypse movie? Thanks in advance. Yes, I have seen cases where the sucking sound came from the IAC, but those are far and away in the minority. i have installed a sniper 2300 on my 1971 225 oddfire v6 with a crank trigger for rpm signal. Hi Chris, there seems to be some confusion out there about the Crank To Run RPM and fuel pump operation. Price Point: $, Advanced throttle body There is no programming, per se, to switch from closed loop (where the ECU is controlling the fueling based on input from the O2 sensor) to open loop (where the O2 sensor is ignored.) If you turn the ignition off and back on, & crank it, it will start & die again. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! Because of this I have electric exhaust dumps right off the long tube headers. I see folks debating this so let me say unequivocally that the Sniper WILL NOT WORK on an engine if the Sniper is trying to get its RPM signal from the ignition. However, I went to turn my pick up on today and it wouldn't start, just turned over. 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. Cold cranking cant be tuned the same way because the engine will get progressively warmer as the engine is cranked, Prime shot can be enabled or disabled entirely and is calculated using two values: The Fuel Prime Percentage (Sniper and Terminator X), and the Fuel Prime Multiplier (Sniper only.) Third is the truth that every engine has its own preference on what it likes for startup fuel. Well, my friend, that is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play. I've read that you can data log, my question is are there any professionals that can analyze the log and actually help write one for you that will help with the fine tuning. Don't let that get the best of you. Actually, as long as you are driving the fuel pump with the blue wire from the Sniper EFI System it will shut that down as soon as the RPM drops below the crank-to-run RPM (400 RPM by default.) Yes, there should be a steady flow of fuel out of the return. Ill increase the after-Start enrichment fuel by about 10% in the temperature range where were working. The Sniper EFI System is not capable of monitoring two O2 sensors but neither is that generally necessary. Stay after it--you'll make it happen! The challenge will be what you call the "right fuel system". However, each engine is different. Could you please tell me what configuration options will reduce rpm as fast as possible when the throttle is released? MSD recommends non resistor plugs. All it knows is what it sees in the pipe. First, remember that after-Start enrichment is not a fixed value. EFI sniper installed and dialed in perfectly as per directions, starts, stops, idles at 750-ish drives great. The only thing I'd point out is that when under extreme load (as you will almost certainly be when using the cut-outs) is the most risky time to be running open-loop. Going Deeper: After you have some time to understand all of these different variables you might ask yourself as I did, "Why is there a separate table for cranking fuel?" But weve also introduced some leanness from 4-10 seconds. Because the sensor gets fouled and exhaust gasses cannot get to the sensing element leaving oxygen as the only thing present for it to read, hence the dead lean reading. My situation, although related to start up, is somewhat different. Have a look at those. Everyone else was backordered several months. I have a sniperstealth witch dui ignition and Holley in tank pump. A low air to fuel ratio means the mixture is rich. The Sniper ships with an OEM grade Bosch O2 sensor. Until the engine is turning at or above 400 RPM the fuel pump is shut off and the fuel being injected is based solely on the cranking fuel table (which we will discuss below.) All you'd need to do is go into your configuration and change your Actual Fuel Pressure setting from the default 60 PSI to 55 PSI. Fuel Prime Multiplier is primarily a benefit to throttle-body based EFI systems. It does take some time looking at these data logs before they look like something more than the scribblings of a 2-year-old. Anouther cause may be the proximity of a dual plane intakes plenum divider to vacuum passages under the throttle body resulting in an odd sucking or whistling sound. Ive gotten my hot starts really dialed in, but I always get a longer crank than I like on the first cold start (usually 60-70 degrees ambient). Thanks for the kind words, Tony. . Nor can I really recommend that you split it as I have. Several things to cover here. Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? Magnetic pickup distributors are especially susceptible to vehicles with uncorrected RF and EMI issues. Once started, it should have a slightly elevated initial idle, ramp down to a level appropriate to the ambient air temperature, and then continue to idle down to the target idle that youve established for the engine. I strongly recommend EFI System Pro. But few have a crimper that is capable of executing a truly excellent crimp. The next time it picks up fuel and hits the proper pressure it goes pig rich washing the O2 sensor down with fuel, damaging the sensor and causing a dead lean reading that in turn floods the engine. Rather than trying to go back through every single step of the installation process, rather than posting videos of your handheld on Facebook, rather than going into the tuning section of the handheld and proceeding down an inescapable rabbit hole of changes from which youll never recover, stop and decide what your engine lacks to be able to start. 03-14-2018, 07:03 PM. Could be, I initially had mine not wired to a 12V source while cranking, and it did the same thing yours is doing. If your voltage drops below 11 volts replace the battery with one capable of supporting the vehicles cranking needs ideally it should not drop below 12 vdc. Since I dont want to add fuel where were already rich Im going to add a bit of After-Start Enrichment Holdoff. (Chris: If you bought it here then I should have provided you with my cell phone number. Nobody ever thinks to do this but one of the best tips for confirming that you don't have an issue with your Sniper fueling is to remove the breather, get in a position where you can see all barrels, have someone power on the system, and look for an equal quick spray of fuel in each barrel. Thanks Chris, keep up the good work. Super helpful and knowledgeable. A tube type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank and pump. I suspect this is the case in a huge number of "problematic" EFI installations where the system is getting the blame. The A/F Ratio starts at -1.0 and decays to zero at 140 degrees. Would appreciate your input. A key at the top of each log shows the signals associated with each color. Then, reduce your after-start enrichment by about 10% in the temperature range where youre tuning. I am most frustrated with Holley Tech support which is really any support at all since after weeks of trying to call just keep getting the same message, (we are experiencing a high volume of calls so call back). You also need to properly phase the rotor. I've been running the super sniper 1250 on my 6.2 ls for several months now and am still fighting cranking issues. Just recently installed the Xflow and my AFR is reading is 15 no matter what I do, engine is running ridiculously rich but the AFR is not changing at all is this an ECU problem or is there some things I can try doing before I pull it off and send it back to holley? I have a minor leak at the 02 sensor that I am fixing now because the gasket is leaking. I'm worried that the engine will stall at idle. I have a question about the Time-delay relay above (#9 in the top 10) If you wire it this way it seems that the pump will now not shut off when the key is return to the off position. Pin 30: To Battery This value can be changed using either the handheld or the software but I am not familiar with a case where changing the crank-to-run RPM has been beneficial. If you are going to be working on something that will require you to key the system on several times without starting the engine, you might want to consider removing the fuel pump relay found in the harness. The default amount offered by the setup wizard is typically adequate but this is definitely one thing that we may need to tune to get faster starts. Another great dissertation. Great job implementing what I've written! Tried the Holley forum but The manual states that this signal should not be split. Engine is a BBC 533 and makes just about 800HP. Maybe Holley will add Fuel Prime Multiplier to Terminator X later. Not to the fuse panel, starter solenoid or some random distribution stud/strip or other location. Probably 3-4 seconds, and rich after it does fire. 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